Hari har, Sensei.
Hari har, Hari har.
Let me ask you a question, which came up to me yesterday, because I noticed the movie Awake, which was available on Netflix only a few years back, is now available on YouTube. And the question is, as disciples of Karauli Shankar Mahadev, as yogis, does it make any sense to watch these old movies, which describe a situation maybe a hundred years ago?
Before going into the details of it, let us explore the reality. Why does one need sadhana? Why should one be inspired to follow the stringent path of sadhana? The life that we have, we live in, is already a bit too complex than what it was a year ago, what it was a decade ago, and what it was centuries ago. Primarily because there is very little space left in the mind with the kind of distraction that one lives in, in the current modern world. There is too much of the technological intrusion into individual mind, and the mind is absolutely not free.
So things that's prescribed a hundred years ago, if you follow exactly the same way, first you will not be able to follow it, and if you are not able to follow it, it merely becomes just a lip service, just a set of information, which will not allow you to get deeper into the practice. And unless and until you get deeper into the practice, it's really not going to work. Point is very simple. World has become very complex, and so has the mindset of people become very complex because of the technology. And you are over, over, over jam-packed with that, and the process that suggests is basically good for the people who are completely empty and are ready to go as a seeker of truth.
Whereas in the current time, a person has to maintain a tough physical life where he has to manage, live, compete, succeed, and find time for the self to actually pursue the spiritual journey. How will you do that? The point is you have to have the current solution, the solution which is very contemporary. The sadhana, the path that is very contemporary, which solves problems from day to day life in such a manner that you are completely free from the clutches of the present time, and successfully manage yourself, your general physical life, and still manage to find that fine gap and create that gap to pursue your spiritual journey.
In that case, one has to understand that human life is just the bunch of memories. The more memories you have, the greater complexity you have in your character, in your personality, in your day-to-day action. So how to clean that step by step? So the relevant point is, you will have to start from the point where you have started from. The danger of watching something which does not suit the current environment, does not suit your current challenges, does not address the current challenges, it will become somewhat theoretical, than practical.
So I will recommend everyone to actually pursue the life in the same direction as he is supposed to, while solving each of the problems within the life, find the gap, and then make the practices very much evidential in form of results. Because anything that you… the best formula for answering such questions or finding an answer to such questions are, please see, whatever that you listen to, whatever that you do, does it produce result? And if it does produce result, is that result merely theoretical or that is evidential? I firmly believe, and Darbar believes, Gurudev believes, and propagates that if there is no evidence, it means that is not relevant for you. And if you are on the right path, it will always produce evidence, results, and results will be evidential.
So, finally, the journey actually is existential exploration. When you go for existential exploration, it is existential journey, it will be experiential journey, and that would produce evidential results. If that is not happening, it is just merely simple poetic expression, as simple as that.
All right. I have actually two more questions raised while listening to you. One question is, what is the evidence of a right path? And the second question is, I understood from what you said, that given the circumstances of a modern world, these old paths 100 years ago are kind of obsolete. But maybe I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, that these old memories can even hold you back. And my question is, we perceive, everybody, each one of us perceives a different way. So, how come, how these old memories influence a human being, and how come the same memory or similar memory can influence two persons completely different way? If you could elaborate on that, in connection with the first question, please.
Yes, absolutely. You have to understand, the human life, we, are nothing but a bunch of memories. Since our inception, we, as we evolved from nothing to something, to finally, over billions of years into human, we accumulated memories of the entire journey, and that we have to get rid of. We have to get rid of all the memories when you start the journey backward to the root, to your origin. So, any new memories in the process is not the right way, because that will yet convert into another memory dump yard. So, it is to be cleansed, cleansed, and cleansed, and cleansed.
What is cleansing? How will you find the answer to it? Your body gets lighter, as if you are defying gravity. The first thing that you defy is the defiance of gravity, where even if you weigh 100 kilos, you will feel like that you are just only 25 kilograms, as lighter as that. And eventually, you are weighing only 100 grams. That's what is your internal feeling. It is not that your physical mass or volume will reduce, or the weight will reduce, but you start defying gravity. That is the defiance of illusion, which in a deeper study of sadhana, one will get closer to it. What normally happens is, when the time changes, and we try to find the solution from the old texts, we will never get that. We will have to start from the point where you are.
For example, you are in Sahara Desert area, where the day temperature is over 55 degrees Celsius, or maybe 60 degrees Celsius, and you are wearing the jacket, which is good enough for minus 40 degrees Celsius. That's not going to work out, you have to really remove it, because your behavior, your actions, has always to be very contemporary in nature. So, you will have to really look how you have become a dump yard of memory of others, what was simply non-existent a century ago. You are watching television. Television didn't exist earlier. Your source has widened up, and so also, the technology comes with a danger of converting you into a dump yard of memory, and you accumulate so many things over a period of time, with the help of technology, which simply was not available a century ago.
Right now, right now, the distraction, I call it digital distraction, is at peak. You cannot live without it. So, your mind has literally no space. All complications and all answers that you try to look forward to is through that digital solution. So, mind does not have a space. So, mind is actually overpowered, over-captured by the feedback that you receive through various source of information. What exactly sadhana is for? Get to yourself. Leave everything. Now, for that purpose, one becomes a sannyasi, or a renunciate that you leave the world. Now, you can't leave the world. Even if you are in the Himalayan cave, the mobile network works there. You have the WhatsApp connection there. So, the technology actually chases you, and you are so used to it that the mind automatically gets driven to that.
So, more and more information that you dump yard, convert yourself into the dump yard of memories, might be good for your physical life, where you will appear to be intellectual, but will be far away from wisdom. So, the process, what it was earlier, a sadhana that you do, as you already have sufficient space, the gap, you are not that big a dump yard because you didn't have access. So, the techniques that worked wonders at that point of time will not allow you even to take off. Like, if you close your eyes, thousands of questions come up now, which earlier used not to be. Why? Because you are already wandering, well, within your junkyard. Earlier, it was a clean field. You close your eyes, and then you could drive into the next step.
People actually fail to understand this final point. But the scriptures are very particular, and the yogis and great yogis of Himalaya, of the rishis, of the masters, they all had the clear-cut knowledge of it, and that's why they never elaborated things. They put everything into the code. So, as over the period of time, the code will be decoded by people who are truly becoming a seeker of truth. So, that is the first part. Technology-wise, when you look into, you see a lot of memories, a lot of memories start getting dumped into. So, if you have the information, you can think of it. What if you have no information, you cannot even imagine?
If I say, conceptualize mango, a very nice image of Alphonso appear before you. But if I say… you can never visualize, because you never experienced it earlier, because you do not have that space in your mind, which already had the experience of. It is sheer stupidity. People think that you think. You don't think, actually. No. You are mistaken. You don't think. Humans don't think. It's already there in the form of memories. You take one step forward, and from the cloud, you receive identical thing.
Now, how to start the first point? Where to start from? The very first point. It is, first step is the most important step. And first step is from your present. If you start from the past, you will never go anywhere. If you attempt to go into future, you will never be able to start. So, you can start only from the present. The present complexity, present problems, present lifestyle. And start from that around you. First, you have to break the inner wall within you. And then gradually expand that breaking process to the outer layers, and layers, and layers thereafter. And one day, you see that you have really got onto the right path of liberation. And each stage, when you go on breaking the walls, there is evidence. There is evidence, not merely in the feeling, but that is quantifiable, which can be measured, which can be felt, which could be realized. It is as simple as that, Jiří.
It is simple as you say, but also very difficult, because now I realize, what you said, you have to start somehow, you have to break from like the inner prison. But what I noticed here in the Western world, that people think, oh, they are really interested in yoga, etc., etc., but only like an intellectual level. So, they like to talk about it, and they like to listen to things, and they think they're making their progress. But as soon as they realize that it's not only the intellectual level, but that they would have to do some practice, then they get scared to leave their intellectual comfort, let's say, and they don't do anything. So, the problem is how to break, how to do the first thing, how to break that, I call it inner prison, you know, the intellectual prison, actually.
That actually is the answer itself. Your question is embedded with answer well within. You have to understand how to start. If a person is intellectually full, and try to bring in more intellectual information, nothing is going to go in. So, sadhana is the first step. It begins with empty yourself. Empty yourself. Empty yourself. Empty yourself. If you empty yourself, then only, even intellectual information will work. Otherwise, that will be ineffective, and it will only, only escalate your uncalled for ego that you know so many things, but in reality, you know nothing. So, yeah, so sadhana has to begin with first step of emptying, emptying from the point where you are standing at this point of time today.
Exactly as you say, the thing is that intellect or ego doesn't even let you start with sadhana, because that intellect thinks he knows, and the intellect thinks he's underway, and it doesn't let you start. And there is one more thing, which is, which I hear almost every time. Somehow, the information spread, that when you meditate, or when you're enlightened, it happens without the effort. You know, you stay there without, you do it without effort. So, people think mistakenly, and it's really a very common mistake, that doing nothing is exactly their way, and it's their karma, and everything is perfect, and that they are on their way. So, maybe it would be nice to, if you could elaborate a little bit more on this, to clear it out for everybody, for a layman, actually.
This is very interesting, Jiří. You know, in the, not only in Western world, around the world, including India, people think, just float. But, be like the river, and allow it to flow through, till it merges with ocean. That is one approach, which will never liberate you. Please do understand. Even if you go by it, you are floating and letting it go. You just look at the example of a river. When it flows downstream from the mountains, it hits rocks, literally, in the human word, beaten up by rocks, changes its direction, and just float through, till it merges with ocean. And many of the masters propagate this as a unique idea of meditation, and spiritual life, but that is not the reality, because the water will evaporate. Even when it merges, it will evaporate, get into the cloud, come back as rain, and the cycle will never be through.
Actually, sadhana means going to the source, where the river has originated, going to the origin of it, and it is hard swimming across upstream, not downstream. And that's where you have to very meticulously plan yourself, and, and go ahead into the details of how it goes, how it will be, and that is how you shall be actually pursuing your career upstream. At every stage, there are temptation, you lose, you lose, you get exhausted, and you are pushed back downstream, yet again, you start the journey, begin the journey yet again downstream, and then you realize, and again, you need yet another push to go forward. Who puts you down the current, and identically in sadhana, there are many distractions, that would always attempt with tremendous force to push you downwards, push you downstream, and you again make your effort, do the kriyas, do the techniques, blessed by guru. A complete master, and then you are able to swim across, and complete the journey upstream to your source. When I say source, when I say source, it means your origin, and your origin means the time well before the existence itself came in existence. That is actually the liberation.
Thank you very much, Sensei. May I have one more question regarding this subject?
Yes, please. Yes, please.
It actually comes from the practice, and also from what you said, that when you are on the right path, you can see something showing you how you figure out that you are on the right path. That's the question, because these things don't even have to be positive always. Sometimes the old karma comes out, sometimes sickness, et cetera, et cetera. Would you please elaborate on this as well?
Practically, you cannot find yourself. There would always be temptation. People think that they are inspired, but that's actually not the reality. Please do understand it very categorically. That's not the reality. Because you think the physical existence alone is the physical existence, and that's what the entire existence is about. That is not the reality. Well, before physical, there is astral existence. Before astral, there is causal existence. Well, before causal, there is supercausal, and then eventually into a state of non-existence. So, you will think that probably you are on the right path, but you would see some memory from the astral existence is actually overpowering you, guiding you through, misdirecting you, and you will never know it. You will never know it even through any master. Unless and until the master has himself proven that he is a complete master, and he controls not the physical, but the astral, causal, and supercausal existence.
He has the access to it, has the vision to it, interference into it, and is able to actually control it. So, unless and until that happens, sadhana never succeeds. So, what do you need then? You need a company, a much superior company, much superior company, a company that has experienced itself over ages, over long period of sadhana, and makes you experience each of the words that he speaks of. Not only makes you experience, that experience becomes evidential for you. If that is happening, you are on the right path. Otherwise, on your own, probably one in a billion could have, but otherwise it is impossible.
And that is why you would see that anyone whom we term as reincarnation of supreme consciousness, as the chosen son of the father, they also needed guru, a master. Jesus needed guru, Krishna needed guru, Buddha needed guru, everyone needed a master to guide him through, or else it will be land of pure wandering. Rama had guru, Rama had guru, everybody needed guru, because the moment you are into the physical body, you are under the clutch of illusion. Because anything that is visible is illusion. And that's what you are into. And to get out of that illusion, you need a master who has traveled beyond illusion and able to go beyond illusion into supreme consciousness. Simple.
So it's actually the same thing as the first group of people we were talking about, which are being fooled by their intellect, thinking that they don't have to do anything, just flow down the stream. So when you start practice, and you're practicing and you're getting some signs, and you think you're on the right path, but you might be very well mistaken, same way by Maya, like the group of people which don't do anything, which think they don't have to do anything. So actually saying that without real, full Guru, realized Guru, you have no chance.
Absolutely no chance. There is a very interesting anecdote connected with such kind of mindset. You are moving into one room apartment and think that that apartment itself is the universe. That's not the reality. Such intellectuals, they live with a hell of a lot of complications within them. And it is their choice. It is not for us or others job to guide them through. Please understand. There is an introduction and thereafter, if your karma, if your journey has crossed many times that cycle, there will always be a sudden spark within you that would drive you to the right path. Unless and until that happens, unless and until that happens, it's not going to actually happen the way one may think of. So this is all very natural. You cannot change it. And there is no complaint. Such people are very good people because they will be born again and again. And at least the world will be always having some intellectual people around them because they never get liberated.
Yes, unless, unless they got tempted to follow some not fully realized guru, follow somebody who says he's a guru and he can lead them completely astray, wrong path. They can get sick. They can get sick. Many things can happen to them. And I think this is a big danger now here, especially in Western world, that you have thousands types of yoga, thousands of masters, full internet, full YouTube. And I think this is a very dangerous thing actually.
It is. It is. It is not only in Czech Republic, it's in India as well. And there is only one reason. There is only one reason. Because you become complacent and that complacency is mainly because you are a born slave. You love slavery. You love slavery. Slavery of thoughts. And that slavery takes you from being a slave of something else to being a slave of something else. It is the path of liberation. Liberation is a better way to proceed is not through slavery, but through a revolutionary where you learn to revolt, to learn further.
But what do people do? They see it, they feel, oh, it's good and they stop there. They stop there and that stopping over actually results in slavery. And it's not because they stop primarily because they are satisfied. No, because they are embedded, embedded with the memory of slavery over the period of time. They are never liberated. Look at how we have been taught, how we have been educated in the modern world. You are born slave. First, you are born out of a family. You carry the family legacy, family name. Then you know that you are born in a particular culture. You become slave of that culture. Then you are confined to a city. And then if you grow beyond that, you are combined and very much wired around the concept of geographical boundary, which you term it as a country. And you never get out of it.
The geographical boundaries are man-made creation. It is not the natural process. It is good for regulation of democratic system to run the system well within this. But then that geographical boundary should not be the limitation. But we are made to do that. We have lived ages warring. Firstly, it was the kingdom, one king fighting with another, the village chiefs, clans, kings, countries.
It is, you are never a human. You are never beyond the boundary. You are taught that way over the period of time. And so in the process, you have forgot. You have forgot where did you come from. You think you are the supreme. And there is slavery. Slavery of that thought that you are supreme, thinking you are liberated so you could do any damn thing. You could even control nature. You could do anything that you feel like because you think that you are very independent and liberated. That's not the reality. The liberation means deeper sense of coexistence. But that's a wider and deeper subject. One has to start emptying from the point where he is standing at that point of time.
You have to empty yourself. Keep on emptying. Do you think that I am a slave of my master? I am not. I always revolt to learn deeper and that makes my guru very happy. And he looks forward to me. Where is he? So as he would be able to cool me down of my queries. That's how I have grown in my spiritual journey. I always used to revolt against my own teacher only to learn further. No, no, no, no. I have not understood. Please let me. And finally I got to the point when I got a Purna Guru, a complete master, who could immediately not satisfy you through the words but direct by action. And the best action is, in the present life, if you have any complications in your body, Tuk, that's gone. That's the first indicator, first indication.
You know, it's very interesting. You read about masters. You read about yogis. And those masters and yogis are running into the hospitals, have so many complications. Are they liberated? Liberation is empty yourself. Empty yourself of all diseases, all pain, agony, greed, anger. Keep on emptying. It is the process, just the reversal process. If you think you are floating intellectually, you are floating intellectually only to the point where you reach nowhere. You end up with a complication. So, best way to judge a person is not by looking at what he is doing, but looking at the way how he left his body. The last page is the most important page to judge a tradition.
When I talk of my tradition, our tradition as we know, Babaji not only left the body, went into Mahasamadhi, he came out, again went in, closed it, and liberated means each of his atoms. Every atom got liberated. The body disappeared. It didn't die out over the period of time. No, it just vanished. That is liberation. That is liberation. You have liberated all the atoms and all the memories that's connected with that atom. Every atom of the billions and trillions, uncountable. Everything gets liberated in one go. That is liberation. And that is possible only by one way. Empty yourself. Empty yourself.
If you get attracted to somebody, please do check. Is he really capable of emptying yourself? Whether time stops where you become timeless in the sense that you go beyond time. The incidents stop. The Kala Khanda, which is called, is stopped. It does not become relevant for you. It is non-existent for you. This is what is the evidence in your journey. And the journey that you could start well from within the body. So you have to be very, very careful. And this is good enough for one to think that, is that happening really with you? Or if that's not happening, if that's not happening, learn to revolt. Don't become a slave.
You don't have to be rude. I know. I know the limitation of my father. That he could teach me up to this point. I know the limitation of my middle school teacher. I know the limitation of my high school teacher. I know the limitation of my university professor. It does not mean that I become very rude and insensitive to them. I thank them for taking me forward. But that does not stop my journey. It is infinite journey to the origin. Journey to the origin is what is the path to liberation. Nothing else. And with so much of dump yards, you think you would be able to travel. I can only wish you best. Good luck. That's not going to happen. Though.
So I understand you cannot get reach where you're going to with memories, with Smriti. So we started with, we did start with this conversation, with memories, and we finished with memories. So everything starts and ends with memories.
Absolutely.
If I understand correctly.
Absolutely. There is nothing in this world, except memories. And of course, the memories float in Atman, which is omnipresent, which does not go, which is not born. Deeper you go, you know, it becomes such an interesting exploration, an experiential journey. You experience it. It's not mere hearsay. And then that becomes very clear to you because you experience it step by step. And step by step, you empty yourself. So it is recommended not to get into that dump yard. Rather, clean, clean that mess. Clean that junkyard. And then the boundary that is there will be broken.
Look at this way. You take a balloon and blow it on. So there is air inside the balloon and there is air outside the balloon. So this is what is the pure consciousness. Both. And this is the human body. The memory of a balloon gives you the balloon. Now it's up to you. What do you want to be? You want to be a balloon or you want to be a tire of the car or a truck or a huge industrial dumper. This is what the memories of that thickness, the layer of memories. The more you accumulate, the more imprisoned that you get. And you have to blast it off. Not that it blasts and that part remains. No. Blasting means everything disappear. All the atoms conglomeration vanish. In fact, it would lead you to a greater question and yet another question about how did the atom come into existence.
But that's much deeper study and could be experienced only through sadhana when you actually defied the theory of relativity where you learn to disintegrate and resurrect, stay in suspended animation. And these all are the journey which can never happen, which can not even be thought of through the intellectual pondering. It is to be practiced. As simple as that.
Thank you very much, Sensei. There is maybe one little thing. I understand that's a different subject, which you touched just now. But maybe one more thing we could talk about and that's a perception. How is it changing throughout your sadhana, throughout your practice? I believe that, or I think I feel, as you lose the memories, you're getting rid of memories, your perception changes and widens. And it's just a repeating cycle. Of course, sometimes you can get into trap, we spoke about. But could you elaborate on this one as well?
Well, it's a much deeper subject, actually. And that should be best practiced through sadhana. It cannot be intellectually grabbed. Intellectual information is only the signage. Like you start from Prague and you have to go to Paris. And you have the milestone, you have the signage. Paris, 2,000 kilometers, let's put it that way. Or Belgrade, 1,200 kilometers. It only is letting you know that that is the route to your journey. That's not your destination. Always bear this in mind. You have to step in, take forward, move forward, move forward. Constantly you are moving forward. Then only that happens. So, it is more of existential exploration, not existential gossiping or mere discourse. It is to be experienced through sadhana. That means, here is the doctrine. You get the doctrine. Right after that doctrine, you put that doctrine into principle, into practice. And that's how your perception develops. And perception is the beginning point. Without perception, sadhana can not take, even take the start. You think you are doing sadhana, you are dancing around, hallelujah, or Hare Krishna, Hare Krishna. You are nowhere. The only difference is you are wearing a different cloth.
Yeah, everything else stays the same, actually.
Everything is the same. You are only dancing around. You have only put certain marking on your body, some tattoos around you, dancing around. You have a drum party. Whether you are doing a carol or you are dancing and singing in the church or in a temple, it's not going anywhere. You have to move forward. And moving forward is not intellectual, but it is through the practice that you understand doctrine A. Then go back to practicing that doctrine A. It becomes principle. You further practice it. It becomes your experience and that becomes your perception. Unless and until, that perception is achieved through this, through your journey, it will not be yours and can disappear any point of time. And you will see that you are sitting back in the square one where you have started. And many a time, you would be sitting back even much before you started in the worst condition. And that's how I have seen any number of masters falling down from the current situation, current position, to worse than a situation of hell. That's a reality. That's a hard reality.
Yeah, I think this is another thing people don't know. That even the master may fall down all the way down.
Yes.
So, we think you have to stay alert, alert, alert, and observe yourself all the time.
24 hours in a day, you have to be awakened. Never rest. Never rest. You are swimming upstream. Your swim has to be constant. Even many a time, the current, you are not able to pass through, but you will at least stay where you are. And many a time, you will see that you are drawn back and then you again push forward. That's what's called practice. This is practice. Through practice, practice, practice, you keep on moving forward. And here comes the blessings of mother, the nature, and the complete master that simply lifts you, picks you, and puts you 100 meters up in the upstream journey. You further continue, continue, continue, continue, continue with your hard work, with your intense sadhana practices and intention not to get deviated. When you continue that, yet another, that pleases the master, you move forward. And that blessing works. Without the blessings of master and the mother, sadhana can never even start. Can never even start.
In the Western world, and even in India, across the world, people are filled with sexual thoughts. Completely. And that is why their consciousness is always living in the genital organ. They are not able to move upward. Not even to the Manipur. All they do, earn money, enjoy life, have sex, have multiple partners, and you think you will do sadhana. Impossible. You have to, first step is to clean that up. Whatever is past is gone. Now take a firm resolve. In fact, sticking to the life partner, and if that's not happening, then no one. And both of you move ahead from there. When you look at women as sex object, forget about moving forward, you go miles and miles downwards into the hell. And eventually, kundalini, the mother, herself, she would withdraw from it. She will not exist in you. So you would think you are doing a great job, but no. Reality is, you are into deep minuses. You have wasted your life. Even not qualified to be born as human again. So world is completely misled, misled by many masters who are not even themselves, not free from the sexual perception and thoughts.
And they are teaching and misguiding people, any number of people. That's dangerous. They themselves go to hell and drive millions of people and followers into the hell. They do not understand. I mean, I invite all those. Welcome. Everybody is welcome to either debate, discuss, but based on the evidence. That on the live streaming, you will see there is no way. No way means no way. It is just jugglery of words that they have really mastered. And people, they want to get the lighter stuff, which will entertain them. And I think in a way it is better. But you are at least into some jugglery of words. So it is, it is okay. It is much better than to dance around and get indulged into deep nuisance. Then to at least dance very systematically, thinking that you are elevating, at least you are moving forward because you are away from, at least for time being, you are away from the nonsense. That way it is okay.
But if you think you will liberate, you will meditate, you will go beyond, I will say not possible. Not possible means not possible. You cannot even think. The best way to judge yourself, what is the ability that you have gained, ability to think beyond? Can you think beyond? Can you accept the point? Can you stick to the point if some new points are brought before you to really explore it? You will simply reject it outrightly without knowing it. And that is the blockage that has been so permanently created in you by your wrongdoings, by your very same cycle of getting trapped into such, such luxurious, comfortable jugglery of words. Get out of that. That is the only way.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Thank you, Jiří.
Hope I will see you again soon and that we could discuss the subject like the consciousness, for example.
Sure, we will do that.
Hari har.